Janaka@spamsit wrote:
AlphaCentauri, it only seems like a ddos. There are some subtle differences though. The primary difference is that each user acts alone and only on the spam he receives. No individual user makes more than a few simultaneous connections. Nothing anywhere near a syn flood. The problem for the spammer website host is that the spammer sends out millions of spam emails and therefor may have thousands of individual protesters. The result of there being so many protesters is that the host my be flooded. The purpose of direct action protest is to force change. But it is not change by a few, it is change by the many.
We all agree that this is exactly what the spammers deserve. You send email invitations to 2 million people a day to visit your website, you ought to be prepared for the traffic. And if you get a lot of overage charges for extra bandwidth, hey, sucks to be you.
But it's when we talk about there being a limited number of connections that it sounds like a syn flood, and when we talk about their legitimate customers being unable to make connections that it sounds like a DDoS. Just because there are lots of people participating, doesn't mean it's legal. Look at how the government of Georgia was taken down by a lot of stupid people downloading a DDoS program onto their computers and running it just out of nationalist sympathy.
Janaka@spamsit wrote:
The tools provided with SpamSit are there to help the user choose real spamvertised websites. If a lot of users make the wrong choices then an innocent site may be hurt. Host providers could be forced to be more vigilant about spamvertised websites on there servers. Some hosts are a bit lazy about it.
Fighting spam can have consequences, not fighting spam can have greater consequences.
Again, you won't find a lot of disagreement here. And the people here are capable of looking over a list and choosing which sites deserve takedown. We use automated tools to help keep up, too.
But as we have seen with all the joe jobs that we receive, the majority of people who would like to fight spam don't know what the f--- they're doing. They'd attempt to shut down google.com if it appeared in a list you generated.
I guess part of the lukewarm reception you're receiving is that we've seen this before. It started with spam-vampire-like programs that increased the load on spamvertised websites. In cases like Blue Security, where there was a distributed method to submit unsubscribes, once spammers saw large numbers of people joining the network, they DDoS'd the server into a smoking crater in the ground.
And in the past spammers have used botnet hosting on trojan infected hosts to make it nearly impossible to slow down their websites based on heavy traffic. (Now, they are using Cloudflare to do the same legally.) Meanwhile, the accusation that antispammers are using illegal DDoS methods has muddied the waters. People still claim that Blue Frog was a DDoS. If we don't have the moral high ground, it makes it hard to get people to take us seriously.
We've taken a different strategy by escalating the issue from the level of the spammer to the level of whatever supposedly legitimate host or registrar is enabling them. We hold those entities responsible for the illegal activity they are supporting. We refuse to accept the excuse that "there's too much spam to try to stop it."
We've had a lot of success. We aren't the only ones fighting spam, but the fact is that spam volume is way, way, down. And spam promoting URLs has dropped the most -- a high percentage of current spam is advanced fee fraud that only has an email contact in the spam. Those email-address-based ones are the ones we're having to scramble to fight, and they're not addressed by spamsit, either.